15th October, Conducted by Bryony Merritt and George Thomas
I have been an avid fan of Shafran’s work since discovering his book ‘Dad’s Office’ in the library. His subtle images using natural light and depicting the everyday objects and scenarios that we normally fail to notice inspire me daily and his work and process is something I try to emulate myself. I decided to reach out and conduct as interview to speak about his experience in photographic world and his journey to documentary practice and how he balances that with the commercial world.
Bryony: What is important to you about photographing the quiet observations of daily life and how is it that you make the banal beautiful?
S: Its what I do I guess. I suppose I did start in the commercial field where people thought about extraordinary and amazing locations, going places but I’ve never really been into that and I kind of like to believe in what’s in front of me I suppose but I don’t know its difficult to answer, its just I don’t really think about it. Just something in my mind clicks when I see something and it’s suddenly like my subject, you know what I mean. I don’t know I suppose there a little politics in all that we do, every choice, so maybe that it. Everything that’s ever happened to you in your life I guess informs what you do, you’re formed by your parents and your upbringing and where, what country, the weather, everything. So it’s a bit of a everything. Everything informs us in a way doesn’t it. Your fuck ups, your mental state, how you’re brought up.
B: There was a quote by Walter Benjamin that says ‘will not that caption become the most important component of the shot’, with regards to dads office, the reason for the empty office is left rather ambiguous. How important are titles, captions and text in your work?
S: I guess its different projects, different work. I did this book recently. A body of horrible images, which is called the people on the street. I intentionally did not explain it and I didn’t justify it. For me it sounds like a term for people on the street, you know, I don’t know if people get that, here more than other countries. And its photographs of, horrible photos of me taken by people living on the street, homeless people. And I didn’t explain it at all, I didn’t write anything but then again the use of materials and I hope that people might get it in a way, the angle of the work, how I am in the pictures, the transient spaces, the names of the people who took the pictures I don’t really want to justify it, it just felt a bit wrong. And also that book dads office, what am I gonna write? I think people make their own assumptions; they can make their own narrative about some things, not always. But I did a set of pictures called washing up 2000 where I actually wrote all the date and the food we had eaten the night before so I don’t know I don’t think there’s a right and wrong really but context and text does change the meaning or the understanding.
G: I guess you want people to create their own meaning?
S: I think so yeah, I think people can come into the work if they can put their own understanding so sometimes I like to leave it open. Sometimes my work is abit too poetic which is abit shit. I did a project called Ruth on the phone, what am I gonna write, I don’t know its in the pictures I guess, like ageing and things changing like technology. Some work it helps to add context and change the meaning, if you want to drive the work in a separate way.
B: In the Benjamin thing when we were looking at it it was referring to the side of fake news, how giving something a caption changes it but I thought it would be interesting to ask that alongside photographic work. With dads office you could’ve just written at the start and explained everything but actually the fact you didn’t…
S: But whats explaining? Some people think my dad died, because its quite melancholy, the book is. I think a lot of my work often is. And also the colour scheme, palette is also quite dark but then again I always think it to me is almost like a portrait of a relationship using still life images as metaphors and how things change as well. They kind of make sense to me but I don’t pursue that in a way.
G: When it’s someone you’ve had such a relationship with for so long and you already know the relationship do you then just allow the photos to become their own thing or do you try to push them in the certain direction?
S: No I don’t push them, I do stuff and then it’s about editing afterwards and what fits the slight peculiar narrative that you might want to pursue. There’s a narrative in that book of the roof leaking to me, and never being dealt with and that runs through the book of not dealing with stuff. I never ever say this because it sounds abit shit, I don’t want to. It’s abit menial, poor me. I kind of like mystery and ambiguity as well I think.
B: Your work has primarily been described as documentary and snapshot. How do you take this approach into your more editorial campaigns? I saw your Jil Sander one and I really enjoyed it.
S: Well thank you, I don’t like things to be too professional, not keen on really professionally looking stuff, I very rarely use lights. Often I don’t give a lot of thought to much in all honesty but uh I guess sometimes I take a picture and then I’ll look behind me and think that’s more interesting to me so I don’t really just stand there taking a picture of something, I like to look in different ways. I am more commercial when it comes to commercial work because its selling stuff as a product, I’m not going to cry about it because that’s the job. I guess I work in different ways when it’s a commercial job, I have to produce something for a date with people around, it’s a lot different to me waiting for something to appear.. The big difference is that I don’t choose the subject because someone is paying me to take a picture of something for them to sell. The Jil sander was a little different as I got to choose the location but they chose the clothes. One I choose the subject and one they choose the subject.
B: What do you think in general about the fact that everyone now has access to being a photographer?
S: Its how it is I guess. I don’t really do social media, I don’t do instagram. It’s a distraction, too many distractions. We are looking here and looking here, theres so many images.
G: But I mean sometimes you can dilute it with so much poor work, if there are more people taking then the standard is worse. On social media you’re bombarded with so many photos, people trying to be photographers and thinking its established work. You can get drowned in it.
S: An interesting thing you said is you want people to like it or have likes and all that, doesn’t that change it because it should be about the work and the subject, not about the insecurity of people looking at your work. It’s abit x factory, abit starry, ‘I want success and I want people to see my work’, which is probably true for me too but it does feel slightly more vacuous to me now and I don’t want to sound like a grumpy angry old bloke but it is veering towards this weird place, kind of sci fi dystopia now.
B: What advice would you give to someone graduating soon?
S: Depends if you want to be a commercial person or you aren’t that bothered, do your work, make sure it survives and back it up if it’s commercial, I don’t know. Be into your work, do it if you’re paid or not.
G: Do you still feel it would be a valuable thing to go and be an assistant before trying to jump straight into it?
S: I don’t know, it depends for each different person, if there’s work you’re happy with and you want people to see it I wouldn’t wait for other people, do a zine. I used to print stuff and send them to people and give people stuff. Pretty ambitious, editorial and personal. Or you can do a body of personal work and ask for it to be published, better to produce something so you’re really happy with it before its printed. Capture a different viewpoint.
B: Are there any practitioners that you are inspired by?
S: Rembrandt, Rodger Fenton, Phillip Roth, lots of writers, Walker Evans, Stephen shore, Brassai, Carravagio, Vermeer, Agnes Martin, Richard Hamilton, millions of people, Saul Steinberg, Irving Penn, Robert Adams.